This blog assignment has two parts. Please make sure to address all of the questions in your posted response to recieve credit. This is due no later than Saturday, Sept.20 at midnight. No exceptions! 1. Listen to the NPR “In Character” segment (11 mins) and read the short article that is located on the same page. What are the main points of both Tobias Wolff and Stephanie Savage? Do you agree or disagree with them? As a result of having “no sense of teen culture” in the late 1940s and early 1950s, as Savage claims, would this novel be as culturally defining if it was published today as it was then? What character from modern pop culture (books, movies, television) do you think is the Holden Caulfield of your generation? Why? What connections do you see between Holden and your modern day counterpart? Please use specific reference to the NPR segment in your response.
2. Read the Anne Trubek article below. What part of Trubek's argument do you find most (or least) convincing? Based on what you have read in the novel so far, do you believe that it should still be a staple of the high school literature curriculum in America? Why or why not? Be sure to defend your responses with specific details and textual evidence (i.e.use direct quotes from the article to support your answer).
Please remember to write in complete sentences (no abbreviation or textspeak!), proofread and edit your responses, and sign your post with your first name and last initial. This is due no later than Saturday, Sept.20 at midnight. No exceptions.
31 comments:
1) I think that both Wolff and Savage are saying that the average teen life is much different know than it was back when this book was published and i agree with them 100 percent. No teen now adays is left alone in a big city like New York. There would be a huge cultural difference in the novel if it was writen in modern time because there is no place in the country, especially New York, that would sell alchohol to a 16 year old boy even if he looked like he was 50 years old. I think Holen would be like a modern day gothic that was always the different kid and always felt like nobody cared about them.
2) I agree with Trubek when she says, "
One reason for Catcher’s instant-classic status was that is was—to employ that overused neologism—“relatable” to those who had the power to write about it," because it does show what the life would look like for someone who doesn't really have any friends and has no life. I do think that this book should still be taught in high school because it shows the life of a young teen just like us on how much worse life could be. If we don't want our life to be like that then we need to make better choices and move on with our life instead of living in the past.
A few main points that Tobias Wolff made was, one Holden sees everyone as a phony, second Holden is afraid to grow up.
A few points that Stephanie Savage made were that teenagers are still very differnt from then and now like when she says "You see that in the book when you can either go to the carousel in Central Park, or you can choose the Wicker Bar. You can have a skating date, or you can have a prostitute come up to your hotel room. There's really not that sense of teen culture that there is now."
I agree with them i think what they said was true about Holden he is very confused and is wanting to stay as long as he can.
In some ways it would be but in others it wouldn't, for example they way it is written like the languge and tone really helps a teenager realte to the book more. But it also wouldn't work because of the views and morals back in the 1950's to 2008 are really different even though some people are stuggling as Holden but just in slighter ways.
I wouldn't be able to say who he can be but i can say he would be like the modern new gothic, emo, depressed kids of now a day culture.
I think he would fit more into those catergories beacause he is always sad and he uses his red hunting hat as a secuity blanket which many depressed kids have and he is never really happy or when he is happy he usally ends up sad agian.
Both are very sad and lonly and are looking for attention.
I think when she is talking about how the book doesn't really relate to the teenagers now a days then when it did in the 50's. But i think she is wrong in saying that it doesn't really have a shock value it kinda does still have a stock value it might not be like how it was in the 50's but i think the real shock value in these times is how he speaks in the book and how many people can realter to it even though it was in another time period.
Well im in between i think America should start focusing on more new coming out authors who have also made a huge in pack. That we can relate to better because we have seen or heard of what is happening in the world. Unlike when we read books about the past we can't really relate to them and we can't really understand what they are talking about most of the time. But i think it is a really good book and that America should still let them read it but not as something to study but to just have some fun with because there is alot of things int he book that many of us can relate to.
1.
That main points that Tobias Wolff shares is how depressed Holden is during the holiday season when everything and everyone around him. Tobias Wolff mentions that during all this he is afraid to become what his brother is a body in the ground He also talks about how differently he views the book from when he first read it at fifteen and reading it later on. When he was fifteen he related to Holden but now as an adult he related to his teacher Mr. Spencer. The points Stephanie Savage points out that all this is taking place in an era before teenagers had their own little sub-culture. During this time period you either did something juvenile like go to the skating or went and got a prostitute.
No, There is now a defined teen culture. Now teens have certain things that are considered a teen thing like going to the mall. Besides the way and the language book was very rebellious back then while today it is quite tame.
I think the modern Holden of today is Shadow from the book Shadow of a Doubt by S.L Rottman. Like Holden Shadow is plagued by the memory of his brother except for the fact Shadow’s brother ran away while Holden’s brother passed away. Shadow idolized his older brother and wanted so much to be like him the same way Holden wanted to be so much more like his brother as well. Shadow is also a bit frustrated with being a teenager like Holden he is trying to make sense of the confusing adult world and is about unsure of it all. There is also the security blanket thing, Holden has the hunting hat and Shadow has the sunglasses he likes to wear even indoors.
2.
Trubek says this “there are many tales of adolescent angst out there, and they all, it seems, need a wink to Salinger to claim a place in this genre. But Salinger’s novel no longer deserves the top spot in contemporary coming-of-age literature,” Even if there are more coming of age novels now doesn’t mean Catcher should be forgotten. The writer doesn’t seem to notice that the reason that Catcher is so acclaimed is because it was the first of its kind it set the tone for coming of age literature. Without Catcher and the Rye there might not be any The Virgin Suicides or Freaks and Geeks. It would of all been overlooked and might never have existed.
I think Catcher and the Rye should always be a staple of English American literature in schools. It was one of the first of its kind and was the beginning of the modern literature era. It set the tone for other coming of age books of the future. The books before Catcher and the Rye never really dealt with the period from child to adult from a teenage perspective. The book also has a huge impact on history like the new style of writing and the controversy with Mark Chapman and John Hinckley. Any book that has contributed so much to history should be taught in schools.
~Shanna Farley~
The main points are that Holden isn't ready to be an adult yet, he is still childish, and gets fed up with people so there phony's. Yes, i would say i agree with them only because i think thats how Holden feels. A girl mentioned how she wants to punch Holden in the face because he complains to much and that is how i feel. If this book was published today it would be way different. Alot of stuff has happened over the years and it would just be different. I cant think of anybody but i can think of music because alot of people complain in there songs but there all rich and have nothing to worry about!! The connections i see are people complainig every single day of there life. Its like the main topic between everyone.
I dont think this is convincing because its a good book and just because it deals with the 1950's doesnt mean we should stop reading it! Yes i think we should still read it because it shows how different everything was and we learn from it. This book wasnt as sexual or bad as i thought.
-Ashlee V.
1. I agree in sense with both Tobias Wolff and Stephanie Savage because this book shows certain situations in the middle 1900s where it seems teens get into things that now days would be considered more of adult behavior. For example, Holden is a teenager and not only got a hooker, but could pay for it himself as well. Currently if a sixteen-year-old boy did that it would be strange to our culture, but defiantly more possible. This book if published now is far from describing our culture for the most part. I say this because situations that Holden does are basically for him to know only where as the media is in everybody’s lives the in present day. I think I would compare Holden to any young male actor on television, because it’s fictitious, but not always out of the question to be able to happen. Holden seems to always find trouble and most teenage boys right now don’t have to much trouble finding it either. To be specific using a reference from the article Holden is comparable to Chuck Bass in the book and now television show Gossip Girl. I’m making this connection because Chuck is always mysterious and doesn’t mind sacrificing anything and everyone to have a good time no matter the aftermath much like Holden. Each character gets into predicaments, but knows just how to weasel themselves right out of it as if never happened.
2. I think that this book should not necessarily be banned, but I also think it shouldn’t be required to be read either. I understand why it’s so controversial, but I think that is why most people gravitate to it. It intrigues people. After realizing this book was involved in the murdering of John Lennon it caused a stir, but at the same time it made people want to read it. This book is staple in American society and will most likely be for years to come. I believe that the way our world is going this soon will not be as big of deal as people made it when it first came out because our current society is so use to diverse behavior more so than when this was published.
1) The main points that Tobias Wolff and Stephaine Savage discuss are the differences between childhood and adulthood. To describe the differences, they describe Holden and all that he is going through. The points that they bring up is that he is in that stage where he isn't happy, but he isn't unhappy either. He is just trying to find himself in the world. Another point that Tobias Wolff brings up is that he has read the book many different times through out his life and has had a different view on Holden everytime. As Tobias got older, he saw the book as more sad and depressing. This is not how it was when he read it as a teenager. This tells me that adults see things much differently than children do. Another point discussed is that the novel changed the face of teenage culture. Holden opened up the door for teenagers to be teenagers. The book was set in a time before Elvis and where teenagers were nothing to the culture because no one could understand them. This book opens up the minds and helps people to understand what teenagers really have to face. I agree with them when they say that teenagers are in a stage where they're not happy, but not unhappy either. I feel that exact same way. I'm allowed to do more things, but I still can hardly do anything at all. I also agree that Holden opened up the door for teenagers because society had no sympathy for teenagers and no one was there to help them get through their time of struggle. Holden was the "First Teenager" which helped teens find themselves. If this book was published today, I don't believe that it would be as culturally defining. Through the past 40 years, our culture has redefined ourselves. Catcher used to be a big surprise to people and now it has become a normality in our society today. When something is rebelious, people are bound to follow it and it should get more attention.
Holden reminds me completely of Tara from "Kissing Doorknobs." Tara and Holden share many connections. Tara has OCD and lives in her head, thinking way too much. Holden is the same way. He thinks too much and he lives in his own world existing in his head. Tara thinks back to the way things used to be with her friends when she was younger and Holden remembers his childhood at the museum. They are both afraid of change and both cannot accept themselves for the problems that they have. Tara opens up the door for people suffering from OCD and Holden opens the door for those teens changing from children to adults.
2) The statement that Anne Trubek makes: "J.D Salinger's novel was edgy and controversial when teachers first put it on their syllabi. But that was 50 years ago. Today, Salinger's novel lacks the currency or shock value it once had, and has lost some of its critical cachet." This statement is the most convincing part of the article. From my point of view, I would think teachers would chose something more modern and affective to teach students. It makes sense to me that kids might not want to read catcher anymore because it doesn't have the same impact on them that it once had.
Although I would expect teachers to change their plans, I believe that the novel should be a staple of the High School literature curriculum in America. From the article, "Catcher requires less research and has less competition than writing another essay on Shakespeare." The article says that students don't like books with references to other books and prefer to read about the young. I completely agree with that proven point. From my own experience, I know that reading "Catcher in the Rye" helps you define yourself as a teenager. It helps you to see the kind of struggles you might approach and it let's you know that you're not alone. You're not the only one who feels lost in between the two worlds. Catcher is a great book for the teen culture to continue studying.
-Julia B.
1.The point that Tobias and Stephanie are trying to make is that Holden is viewed as the first teen, and how the adult world was confusing for Holden.I do agree with Tobias and Stephanie. Yes it would, I think it would be more defining today than when it was published.
2.I thought the entire article was not convincing. Yes I think that catcher in the rye should be apart of high school literature. It should be because even though it does depict sex and other things, it should not matter. The important thing is the meaning and theme of the book, which is about a lonely confused teen.
Joshua G.
Tobias Wolff and Stephanie Savage main point is that Holden is a teenager having a problem becoming an adult. He does don’t know what to do so he is trying to cover it up.Some say it is the teen culture of today’s time. Also he has trouble with dealing with people because he thinks there all phony.Due to this I agree I think that Holden can’t figure out or adjust to being an adult. He goes to the city after failing to try to figure out what he needs to do. I don’t think it is as defining now as it was in the 1940’s because the teenager life style has been around for a long time now. People also are very different and have come accustom to it. It’s just the life you see every day. I think maybe Brittney spears had troubles adjusting to becoming an adult. She went crazy because she could not handle it all. Well Holden is one of those kids that are lost. He does not know what his purpose is so he wants to end it just like they said on the NPR. HE cant get along because he is one of those people that wont try and think everyone is to phony. He wont get back on his feet because when his brother died there was no one he really could befriends with besides his sister. Holden is like some teens that have seen lose or don’t try to make the best of there life.
2. I found Anne Trubek article was pretty convincing it is right, all high school classes should read this book because they can relate to them selves or someone they know. I believe strongly that it should be in the curriculum like a said before we can relate. It also keeps us interested most books, I my self can not stand to read book that are boring and nothing comes from it like like under graduates said, adding means knocking something off the list (“Scarlet Letter!” yell my undergraduates)"most will be forced to read the old classics a few years later".
. Then like Anne Trubek said “Catcher was a mid-summer Book-of-the-Month Club selection, and by fall it was fourth on The New York Times Best-Seller list”. It show that many people have read the book and thought it was very good. Teachers that are not on the bandwagon yet should get on.
BY MATT GUTTROPF
The main points of both Tobis Wolff and Stephanie Savage, are they both have their own oppions on Holden, and how it relates to teenagers in today's generation. like with Stephanie working on the T.V shows the O.C, and gossip girl. She is also saying how teenagers are different now, then they were in that time era(50's). And also how Holden is trying to pass himself off as a adult, when he really is just a teenager.
Yes, i agree with both Stephanie Savage, and Tobis Wolff because their points in the book are how i myself see Holden as well.A young man stuck between an adult and a teenager, ans how his life was reflected differently because of his brothers death, which caused him to act differently toward people.
i think this novel would definalty be more culturaly defining in todays generation. If this novel had been published just recently, rather then 50 years or so years ago, it wouldn't have caused such an outrage that it did when it was published. Like in the 50's, people were so shocked at this beacuse everyone thought this was crazy, and people shouldn't act or talk like that.
I think Holden would be someone like Marylin Manson in todays pop culture, beacuse they are both judged very much on personality and apperance. And it comes down to either people like you, or they don't.
I see many conncetions with Holden and our modern day counterpart. In today's generation, everyone is diveded up into groups. Holden reminds me of kids today, that maybe have had a hard life, aren't quite the "popular" kids with alot of friends, beacause his fellow classmates or peers don't understand him, because hes different.
#2.
In this passage, the part i fond most LEAST convincing is when she says that book was made 50 years ago and "lacks currency or shock value that it once had." I disagree with this beacuse i think some people can relate to thenselves as Holden and to this generation.
I think this novel should be a staple in America's Literature because i think this book has great meaning and value on what happened in the past and how it relates today!
-Caley C
Tobias Wolff and Stephanie Savage both believe that the book is about the darker side of life, even though there is humor in the novel. At one point Mrs. Savage relates Holden to her own teenager and understands the pain of having her son grow up. Personally this book speaks volumes of the sad part of everyone’s life. Their opinion of the book being dark is an extremely qualified statement. Savage was wrong however in saying that the book wouldn’t have a large effect on teenagers if the book was published today. I can name at least ten kids I know who are “phony” at our own school. Besides the setting and time, this book would speak a lot to kids today. Someone who is like Holden Caulfield is none other that Sid Vicious from the band, Sex Pistols. He was in complete sadness just as Holden was, but he coped with his problems through drugs. Sadly this cool dude died in a terrible way, but overall Holden and Sid were alike. Sid had the same views on society just like Holden in believing that everyone was phony, until he met his girlfriend that he really loved. Overall the NPR segment was pretty good.
Anne Trubek is full of blasphemy. She should be burned at the stake for being so devil possessed- metaphorically speaking. The book needs to stay in the high school curriculum for two reasons. One, contemporary literature is the most full of crap literature I’ve ever read. Art for the sake of art is crap. A lot of people argue that it isn’t but that stream of consciousness crap is completely no value to my life. Secondly, the book is the original book about teenage anxiety. This book is the mother of those other modern day books. If Catcher in the Rye wasn’t ever made, then there would be no other books even remotely close to it. That’s why Anne Trubek is definitely speaking blasphemy.
-Stewart Kasen
The main points of Tobias Wolff and Stephanie Savage were that when they were younger they could relate to him because they too were in between becoming an adult and leaving behind their childhood. But once they were older they realized how truly sad Holden was. I agree and disagree with them because I agree that Holden is a depressed person, but then I disagree because I’m in becoming an adult and leaving my childhood behind and I see how sad Holden is now. If J.D Salinger’s book was to be published today I don’t think it was be as culturally defining because we have kids in middle school that are having kids and doing drugs so I don’t think that a depressed teenager would really be that big of a shocker. I think the Holden Caulfield of my generation is Chris Crocker because be complains a lot. No matter what the subject or person is he always has an opinion about it. And it’s usually a negative attitude. Chris also repeats what he says, just like Holden Caulfield. Some connections between Holden and my counterpart are that we are both entering the adult world and leaving our childhood behind. And we both think a lot of adults are phony.
-Timberly A.
I wasn’t sure if Saturday at midnight meant the midnight that already past or the midnight coming up until it was too late to ask.
Part 1)
Wolf's main points are that Holden thinks everybody becomes a phony after a
while. Also that every time you read the novel, it’s different to you because you dig deeper into it and see other messages and you discover how sad the novel really is.
Savage's main points are the sense of yearning and the sense of being trapped between two worlds are common among teenagers both back in Holden's time and now as well as teen culture hadn't yet been invented in 1951. Kids the same age as Holden had to stay immature and try to keep their childhood or they had to try to pass themselves off as adults. They didn't have that in between time and that's part of Holden's confusion and frustration. Also, Holden doesn’t grow as a person through the course of the novel, he barely comes out alive.
This novel would not be as culturally defining if it had been published today because teenagers in this age already have a strong sense of culture and that would make it not have as great of an impact. At that time, all teenagers were confused and didn’t know what they were doing or who they were supposed to be and that made them all very able to connect with Holden. Teenagers today still can relate to him, but don’t have all the same problems as he does.
Part 2)
As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with Trubek when she says the main appeal of Catcher is how easily teenagers can relate to it. She said “one reason for Catcher’s instant-classic status was that it was “relatable” to those who had the power to write about it.” It’s relatable to everyone who reads it, because everyone has that same sense of loneliness somewhere inside them that Holden expresses throughout the novel.
Catcher should definitely still be taught in high schools. Even though it “lacks the currency or shock value it once had” as Trubek said, it still gives out the same messages and tells teenagers they aren’t alone and they will come out alive. Every teenager can feel like they are Holden, whether they would like to admit it or not. Reading his story makes you feel better about your own life, even if you are in a somewhat similar situation.
Katie Johnson
Period 7
The part of Trubek’s argument that I found to be most convincing was the part where she talked about how even though the Catcher was published over fifty years ago students in high school and even college are still required to read the book. Even though there are other books now with adolescent coming-of-age, The Catcher in the Rye is still very powerful. I think that this book should still be a staple of the high school literature curriculum in America because it is obviously a very powerful book for young readers. And yes, those who choose to go to college may have to read the book again but not all people go to college, and the ones who choose not to may not ever read this powerful book.
-Timberly A.
Hi miss A.
1. The main points of both Tobias and Stephanie were that The Catcher and The Rye is a realistic story and Tobias can even relate his childhood to Holden's at Pency Prep. Both Tobias and Stephanie's views of Holden have changed as they have got older and Tobias even said that Holden seems sort of phony now. They both get sad when they read it now. Neither of the can imagine Holden as an adult. Stephanie said that Holden is stuck between two worlds, the childs world and adults world. In the 1940's and 1950's you either could go ice skating or to the bar. There wasn't a middle teen culture. I agreed with all of the things that both Tobias and Stephanie said. If the book was released now the way it was before, there would be no way that it would be as big as it is. This is because it was released during this time when there wasn't a teen culture, but now there is and people would just think it was a book about a fucked up kid. The book was so big because it was so controversial. Controversy sells, just look at Marlyn Manson he has made his carear off of controversy. Marylyn Manson is a good example of a modern day Holden, he does things that are out there and different from what's expected by society. Holden gets kicked out of school and society expects that you go to school. Manson wiped his but on stage with the U.S. flag, theres no way that society is ok with that.
2. Although Catcher and The Rye is a great book, i have to agree that almost all teen's now days go through all of what Holden goes through and more! Teens today might not go to the skating rink or the bar but now they go to their room and get drunk with their parents downstairs. It even shows how the culture today is getting ever more crazy. It started out with drinking, then weed, then coke, then heroin, then meth. Just think kids are doing meth now days. A modern day of the Catcher and the Rye could be like the book Glass. A book about a young girl and her journey with methanphedemine. I think that these older books are great books and of course they are going to always have somethings teenagers of today can relate to, but more modern books will have even more relatable issues than these older books. Holden Tries to commit suicide and that is almost unheard of in his time. Now hundreds of kids every year try to kill themselves and its sad but more common. Kids drink but not at bars they go to their basement or their friends house. Kids get kicked out of school everyday now. In my opinion The Catcher and The Rye should be taught in school but in a old text english class not in modern cause its not as modern as it used to be.
Hope you had a good weekend, see you on monday!!!!
Taylor N.
1.The main points made about Catcher in the Rye by Tobias Wolf and Stephanie Sawage were that the both thought it was very humors in ways but through those ways devastatingly sad.
2.I honestly would have to agree with the comments they made because it really is very sad about the things he experiences through this book.
3. I believe that if the book were to come out now other than back in the 50's it wouldn't be so much of a big deal because many teenagers may agree with some of the changes he is going through in the transition form child to adult.
4.The Holden Caulfield of this generation would have to be the people in the show exiled on MTV, because they are rich and get whatever they want and have to make a transition to see what the real world is like.
5. The connections they have to Holden is that they have to experience what the real world is like and find themselves throughout the changes.
Part 2.
1.The part of Trubek’s argument that is most convincing about why Catcher shouldn’t be allowed to be taught in schools is that it is very ignorant.
2.I believe that the teachings of Catcher in schools is a good idea because as in text “. Its main appeal to students, he argued, is simply that the young like to read about the young.” This is a very true statement in the way that young people like to read about young people because they may relate in some way.
Some main points are that he thinks the adult life is phony. Also another point that is made is he is afraid to grow up. I agree with them. I don’t think it would be as culturally defining as it was back then because of the lack of no sense of teen culture. I cannot think of anybody today that specifically relates to Holden. Based on the article saying it should not be a part of high school curriculum I think the most convincing part was when she said all the teachers jumped on the bandwagon. That convinced me. Also I think that it is a good part of our curriculum because it puts a perspective on how life really was back then. Even though all the teachers jumped on the band wagon as stated in the article, there was good reason to do so.
Brandy Griego
P.6
1.Some of the main points that they make are that Holden is everyone after awhile seems phony, he's afraid of growing up, he's terrified of change, and there's really not that sense of teen culture that there is now. I would have to agree with those main points because they are true and obvious if you read the book. I think that it still has no sense of teen culture in a way because he doesn’t do things a normal teen going through changes would do. It wouldn’t be as culturally defining also because things that Holden did, back then, were considered a lot worse then they are now. I honestly can’t really think of any character that Holden is like. I am sure there is one, but none come to mind. The only thing that could come close is one of the characters from Gossip Girl, such as Blair or Serena because they have done some bad things like Holden did. I mean they get mixed up with boys and there is lots of drama. Holden gets mixed up with different girls and that causes drama too. The characters in Gossip Girl, I don’t think, like change either because they keep trying to hold on to things, and so does Holden.
2.I find most convincing the fact that there are other books that are better to teach and read out there, but this book is still being taught. Based on what I have read so far I think that it can still be taught, but I am sure there are better books out there. It isn’t that great. It’s a little outdated, and I agree with Trubek in that there are there are better books similar to this one. I also agree with his statement about the appeal to students and that we like to read about the young, prefer short books, and ones without too many references to other books. This is very true because I am like this too.
~Sorry it was a little late I couldn't get it to post because I couldn't remeber my login thing that I had already made. But i finally did. I hope it is still okay.
Tobias Wolff and Stephanie Savage both talk about how Holden is now the typical teenager, and how he was a bit of a mad man going through a hard time. I agree very much with both of the statements. Since in the 1940s – 50s people had “no since of teen culture” I believe that nowadays that has change greatly. There for, if the book had just been published it would not have such a great impact because teens already have a defined culture. I think that Holden could be seen as almost any teenager in various movies or novels. However he mostly remind me of Lindsay Lohan. Over the years she has been in the news a lot, just with getting into trouble, and her struggles somewhat remind me of Holden. She has been portrayed as going a bit mad, not getting along with many people. But he biggest connection I see between the two is how lonely they seem to be, even though they may have a lot of people in there lives they just seem to carry the felling of being alone, and both act out from that.
I believe the most convincing part of Trubek’s article is when she states “Sure, J.D. Salinger’s novel was edgy and controversial when teachers first put it on their syllabi. But that was 50 years ago.” It shows that times have changed greatly and that it no longer is such of an offensive novel. I believe that he book should still be taught in the schools and something Americans can refer back to. It’s a novel that teaches teenagers much like myself simply about life. It does it in a way that most teens can really relate to and understand, which makes it all the better to continue teaching.
Tia Phoebus
Period 6
The main points of Tobias Wolff and Stephanie are basically that the teenes now are much different than they were around the time of 1951. At one point Stephanie says something along the lines of saying Holden is trying to pass himself off as an adult insted of the child that he really is. Tobias says that he can't imagine Holden as an adult. This is something that I do agree with. He already is trying to pass himself off as an adult and he is acting as a adult I dont think Holden would know what to do when he actually is an adult.
If the book was published today I do not think it would be as "culturally defining" as it was back in the 1950's simply becuase just like everything in the world things have changed. Something that was so different and crazy then might not have the same appeal now.
Reading the article written by Anne Trubek there are some thigs I agree with and some things I disagree with. In her opening paragrapgh she says "But that was 50 years ago. Today, Salinger’s novel lacks the currency or shock value it once had, and has lost some of its critical cachet" this is something that I completly agree with even though the book has some moments where you go wow did I just read that, I dont find it all that "Controversial" like it was when it was released.
"The New York Times Book Review credited the popularity of Catcher with the “shock and thrill of recognition” it gave readers" Once again "shock and thrill" the book might have been "shocking" back then but now days anything in Catcher is not any more "shocking" than anything in anyother book.
After reading through chapter 18 if I had to choose if ther book should still be part of high school literature curriculum I would say yes. It is still a good book and was written in a much different style than many other books. It does not however deliver that "shock and thrill" that is was know for back in the 1950's
-Tyler Hartman
Period 7
1)Both Savage and Wolff made great points. Holden no matter how old he gets will always be like a young kid. His behavior won't change as he ages. Like they said Holden has a different outlook on things from all his past experiences, like the death of his younger brother. Everything that they thought of Holden was right on and they really broke down what his character is all about. I think today it would be very popular because alot of teenagers in some way have acted in some way like Holden, whether it's the way he talks, his outlook on life, or how he has certain tendencies he uses as a crutch. Teenagers have changed a great amount in the last fifty years not many could understand what he was dealing with in that period of time, . He has alot of habits and tendencies that most teenagers today might have.
2) Alright well first off I really don't like how this lady thinks. Basically throughout the whole article she's saying how it's old and it has no shock value anymore. Maybe for it might not have an effect because she's obviously an older bitter lady, and it still will for teenagers who can relate to the character at this point in their life. Just because something is older doesn't mean just get rid of it. It's the original troubled youth story that actually had the balls to depict a teenager as something else than a perfect kid. It shows him for what he is , with all the smoking and cussing. Basically I think she's only thinking this because she can no longer relate to it and doesn't think kids his age could either.
Megan Thurston P.6
1.)
The points that Tobias Wolff and Stephanie Savage made were that Holden sees most people as phonies. Also he is scared to grow up. Wolff also says that reading the book when you are an adult makes your view of Holden change. As a child you feel like Holden would be a friend or your hero because he feels the same about adults and peers. As an adult Wolff is depressed when he reads the book. Savage makes a statement that, "You see that in the book when you can either go to the carousel in Central Park, or you can choose the Wicker Bar. You can have a skating date, or you can have a prostitute come up to your hotel room. There's really not that sense of teen culture that there is now," This goes along with Wolff because the point are making is that culture has changed and Holden was before the time of teenagers. Holden is depressed because he is not a child and is not an adult. He seems to be stuck in between the two worlds without the middle ground that we see today in teen culture. I agree with both Wolff and Savage in all of the points they made in the NPR. If the book had been published today it would not be nearly as culturally defining because today there is a sense of teen culture. Though some teens do feel caught between childhood and adulthood there is not such a big cap between the two.
2.)
After reading the article by Anne Trubek I believe that the book does not depict teenage life in current times. When the book was written teenage culture had not emerged. You were either a kid or an adult. Trubek believes that Catcher should not be required reading in high schools. I do not agree with this. I think that Catcher is an important book even if it has lost its “currency or shock value it once had, and has lost some of its critical cachet.” I think that the book helps us understand culture of the 50’s. Stephanie Savage said, “Caulfield was living on the cusp of an explosion in teen culture — just before Elvis, James Dean and rock 'n' roll.” It is important to learn about cultural changes in history so I believe that it is important to read the book.
1 The main point that Tobias Wolff and Stephaine Savage prove are the differences between ones childhood years and ones adulthood. They described the differences, of all that Holden is going through. The points that they bring to mind are that he was in a stage of life where he was no longer happy. But that the same time Holden wasn’t currently happy as well he was like on a sad and happy note at the same time. He was at that point where every teenage boy try’s to find him self. On the other hand Tobias brings up that through out his life he has read the book and that yeah he has seen Holden in different views each time. When he was much older his idea of the book was sad, mad and depressing, but as a teenager that’s not what he thought. This clearly states a child and an adult have two different ways of viewing things, so my point of this is that adults have a lot more mentality then a teenager does because its clearly shown that he him self even saw the book from a different view then as he did as a adult.
2) The statement that Anne Trubek makes: "J.D Salinger's novel was edgy and controversial when teachers first put it on their syllabi. That was over 50 years ago, when the world was going threw a time of change. Yeah I think at the same time it was a very different book for students to read but it was to get his point out there and state that not everyone’s perfect. I think that this book just helps a kid have a better understanding of what the life is really like and yeah that you do have to take and go threw some struggles but hey you know you got to over come yourself, and over your fears and face your true self so, yes I think this book is a great way to teach the students here in America
*SYDNEE GONZALES
1. Wolff and Savage both talk about how Holden thinks everyone is a phony and how Holden is afraid to grow up. I completely agree with both of these statements because Holden does call everyone a phony, even if they are not. If they do something or say something he does not like then he calls them a phony. Holden is also scared to grow up because he does not want to face people. So instead he lies because he is scared people will judge him the wrong way.
2. Trubek says that the Catcher in the Rye remains one of the most referred-to books on back-cover-blurbs. This is completely true because even though the book may be 50 years old and there are plenty of other books that could be taught,teachers are still choosing this book.I think the book should still be taught today because it talks about a teenager just like us and some of the situations that we all go through.
1.After listening to npr and reading half of the catcher and the rye i know a lot about holden.
Holdens life is no different than ares today just time and place are not the same. wolff and savage are saying it teens today and teens in the 50s are differnt. It not the people it change it the thing and time it make people change.
2.The part of trubek argument it i thought was most convinicing was it how the book is still hear today after all the contaversy it had in the 50s. If the book was so bad then why is it hear today. I think it every one should read it because in almost every one can relate to him
1) I totally agree with them, it would be culturally different if it were published today..I think that Holden would be like, the outcast/emo/gothish type because he's confused with things in life as are most teenagers.
2) I do think that Catcher In the Rye should be a staple in high school literature because it has connections in so many things in our history, including the murder of John Lennon. So its deffinately worth putting in the curriculum.
-marcie anderson
period 8
1)i think that the main point of what Tobias and Stephanie are trying to say that back then people think different according to the book as know it dosen't matter to people because every one are open mine as to sex ect...
2)i agree with them because we shouldn't make the choice they make we should do what we belived not live your life as the age you have not keep your self in a sad childhood with problems.
3)I think it not the same as the 1940 and the 1950 s because people know dont care be talking about sex and say what they think about life.
4)i belived that the novel should be high school literature in america because it a really good book and people have the right to read if they want.
5)i think we should be learning about catcher in the rye because we can learn many things for example, make better choice in your life not be assolated from your family that loves you or not being in your own world . Mrs.Alvarez i dont have problems any more with the internet but i could only listen to the media for 7 min because it was down loading to slow but i will try and hear next time or in the library if they let me.
Berlin Morales
1) I think Wolff and Savage are saying that teens will be teens. I agree with them. It would not be as culturally defining if it was published today.I don't see a Holden of our generation because i just don't. i don't see any connections with Holden and our modern day counterpart.
2) I don't find any part of Trubek's argument convincing. I think it should be aloud in todays high school curriculum because it's just a book.
the major points were that savage and wolf have is that holden isnt ready to be an adult yet because he acts "PHONY" and childish! also i would agree because thats how holden really acts in the book and he thinks people are "PHONYS"
i didnt tink the article was all that great! but my opinion on Catcher and the Rye is a real life thng beacuse there are people like holden out there and i think The Cathcher And the Rye Should be read in school but the "sex"
1. The main point Tobias Wolff makes is that during the holiday seasons, Holden is very sad. Wolff also states how afraid he is to die; and to become like his brother, buried in the ground. His view on the book reading it at 15 years old and relating to Holden then again reading it as an adult changed to make him relate more to Mr. Spencer. Holden isn’t ready to grow up, he still see’s everyone as a phony.
Stephanie Savage’s points are more based on the fact that our society today has changed so much from back then. The way we act, the things we do, our hobbies, everything has drastically changed. "You see that in the book when you can either go to the carousel in Central Park, or you can choose the Wicker Bar. You can have a skating date, or you can have a prostitute come up to your hotel room. There's really not that sense of teen culture that there is now."
Shadow, in the book Shadow of a Doubt, is similar to Holden’s character. Both boys had a high achieving brother that is now gone and they feel they need to live up to them. Shadow, as well as Holden, is aggravated with being a teenager. They are insecure and confused about many things. Both Holden and Shadow have a sense of security. For Holden, it is his red hunting hat that he bought while in New York. Shadow’s in and outdoor sunglasses do the same thing.
2. "There are many tales of adolescent angst out there, and they all, it seems, need a wink to Salinger to claim a place in this genre. But Salinger’s novel no longer deserves the top spot in contemporary coming-of-age literature,” is a quote Trubek says. Catcher and the Rye should not be forgotten because it was one of the first books to set the new tone for literature making other classics better adapted to the society. This book has made such a strong point and should be allowed to be taught in all schools. It was the first book to address issues that other authors kept to a minimum. J.D. Salinger took a huge risk and he has made an impact on all styles of writing.
- Jamie Fiske
1)I do think that both wolff and savage are saying that teens today aren't the same as Holden. i disagree because even though a person today would probley never be alone i still beleive that teens today can still be alone. they can feel alone with out ever being alone.granted nowadays people wouldn't sell alchohol to teenagers especially at 16 but there is still other ways for them to get alchohol. if Holden were a teen today he would have no click because he would belong no where.
2)According to trubek One reason for Catcher’s instant-classic status was that is was—to employ that overused neologism—“relatable” to those who had the power to write about it," it talks about people who have no friends and is all alone this book should still be given in school because it's somebodies story mabey alittle off but everybody out there has a story thats close to their life in some aspect and catcher could be close to someone too so we should never completely take away books
Kimberly
The points that the two are making are that Holden is a kid who needs to grow up but won’t accept the punishments of an adult. I also agree with them because he goes through the book calling everyone phony when he is the phony for not excepting life. It would not be culturally defining in our time because there are lots of things that have happened between now and then. Those things back then that are bad would just be a no, no know.
Part 2
I find most convincing how he said it was conversational 50 years ago. Also how it lacks shocking value. Which means that no one really finds anything offensive any more. No I do not think it should be the staple because it doesn’t have any thing offensive unless you don’t like being called a phony. Just like I said in the first line its has lost its shocking value. We hear way worst things in today society then these people did in a lifetime. So it should not be a staple of high school literature.
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